Klubmasta Will

October 25, 2000

Ravers say security requirements 'unreasonable'

Mitchel Raphael
National Post

A Halloween weekend rave is expected to draw 7,000 participants.

The first rave to be held on city property since a ban was lifted in August is already creating controversy.

Lifeforce Industries will hold the event at the Better Living Centre, at Exhibition Place, a week from this Saturday. It's expected to draw about 7,000 participants.

But members of the city's dance community are furious because they say police are requiring an "unreasonable" number of off-duty officers to police the event.

This year's party, called Freakin, will have to have 45 officers rather than the usual 10 to 20 that were needed in the past.

"We were afraid this was going to happen," says Will Chang, executive director of iDance, the group that organized this summer's rave rally in Nathan Phillips Square.

"Whether this is an attempt to price them out of business, or some other purpose, I don't know. But the police gave their word to city council and to us that they would be reasonable and rely on past historical practices in determining how many paid duty officers would be required. They have not been doing that."

Sergeant Steve Clark, the special events co-ordinator at 14 Division who has been dealing with raves for several years, said the Halloween weekend bash will need 45 paid duty police officers, several of whom will be undercover. He said this will cost the promoters $20,000.

When asked whether 45 was considered a high number, Sgt. Clark stated: "My numbers have been pretty static for a number of years now."

But documents sent to city council from the board of governors of Exhibition Place, dated July 5, 2000, show a different picture: Two years ago, a similar party was held at the Automotive Building at Exhibition Place. The estimated attendance was 7,000 and 9 off-duty officers policed the event.

Most other events held on city property used no more than 20 officers, the document show.

Sgt. Clark says the high number of officers are needed to back security at entrances and patrol unlocked doors required for fire exits.

In mid-May, city council banned raves on city property, promising to revisit the issue during the summer. In August, council reversed its ban by a vote of 50-4.

However, under the new protocol for raves on city property, police have the final say on the amount of security required. But the document does recommend police use historical practices when it comes to the number of officers needed.

Mr. Chang says promoters who have voluntarily followed the protocol for raves on private property have either lost money due to the dramatic increase in paid duty officers or have been forced to substantially raise ticket prices.

"If the police were reasonable in determining the required number of paid duty officers, then all promoters would co-operate even though they're not required to."

oOriginal SketcharOo

Don't know what else to say other then this sucks ass!!!The police have probably planned this from day 1. Those bastards, and there is nothing we can do about this!@! Shit Fuck....

Peace
Wes

onesketch

that still works out to a ratio of over 150 people per officer... does that sound so bad?!? expensive you say? at $50 a ticket that means that 400 tickets cover the cost... and before people start yellin i know there are other costs... but really what are the options? No party?
police are there for our protection and to up hold the law... heres an idea... why not give the police no reason to be there... we all know what that means and that it will never happen...

dieznyik

bah, look at you sketchbagz..

Klubmasta Will

(NOTE: mitchel raphael was upset that his editor cut his article by about 300 words. his editor was also responsible for the error stating that the freakin' party would take place "a week from this saturday".)

many of you may not realize how big an issue PDOs is becoming. it is affecting ALL mid to large sized parties, not just parties at the cne.

anyone using the docks, for example, is now forced to pay almost $10,000 for PDOs and ambulance services. that is close to half of what the venue costs!

that is ridiculous, plain and simple. especially when 90% of the officers stand around in large groups chatting away in front of the venue all night.

this is also the only type of event where the police force promoters to pay for their UNDERCOVER officers too.

just thought you should all know why ticket prices for parties are going up.

[This message has been edited by Klubmasta Will (edited October 25, 2000).]

DJ smoot

Well look at it this way, i paid $17 USD for hullabaloo in october.
I have seen people pay $35 USD before for a crappy party here where i live, with 1 headliner, and a second room the size of a closet. With no running water, and no bathrooms. Hardly anyone here complains anymore, theres nothing we can do about it. And our city considers raves illegal, we get shut down all the time.
At least the city of toronto is organized and legitimate about raves. I would pay anything to go to a toronto rave. It sucks that we have to pay so much, but you have no idea how good you have it concerning ticket prices over there.

elena

J_ACiD

at least you americans apreciate what you have instead of bitching about it

E-Pheckted

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
agreed

mistEr_E_man

Agreed...PDO's Are a big issue.

Vidman

Why don't they all just shut the fuck up and start throwing parties OUTSIDE of Toronto..
If you don't like what you have to work with, go somewhere else!!

-=dån=-

[This message has been edited by Vidman (edited October 25, 2000).]

Syphon

In a business sense it is inpracticle to throw an event that requires a larges attendace, outside of the area of greatest population density. In terms of attracting patrons only, it only makes financialy sense to throw the party in a large urban center, ie TO, London, Hamilton.

Jeff

jo3y

man i thought it was about public displays of affection

even though affection doesnt start with an o

um will yer famous!
sign my book..


well my hulla review is in tribe that counts for something right?

XSTACEY

Ummm isnt Lifeforce making like a lot of $$$ though??? Im sure that they can afford it... if they dont like it then maybe they should throw smaller parties. Obviously the police are worried about something.. they arent just doing it to piSS on us...

hardcore_trix

Will- again, u said it best.

$20, 000 for PDO's that yes, do help us when in need, but most just bitching and moaning for nothing? i mean, yeah...they help us and it is undersatndable that they are there for a reason, but $20, 000 for half of them just complaning to us party-kids to stand up or etc...gimme a break.

*bleh*

ShiFtAh

The cops definatly have a right to be there, but like if they were actually doing something it would seem worth the money we pay. Like personally I hate when I see cops searching people who have nothing... or when they're hassleing people.

I never see them doing it tho, only the security. The police officers are always standing in big groups wih their arms crossed shaking their heads.

It seems contradictary to me.. meah
Good luk at this party guys, it's gonna be a big one.

-peace, Laura.

-=wingnut=-

take pics whenever you see a group of cops looking useless :P

onesketch

unfortunately to the general public rave=drugs and as long as the police keep making arrests at parties the assumption will continue. we are left with only two options... eliminate drugs from the scene (which will never happen) or put up with the guidelines that are set out for us.

bucky

to whoever said isn't lifeforce making money, sure they probably will - but thats not the point - its the point of the police using too much power.. I think Alex D. said it best in this months Tribe...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I've heard of these kinds of police tactics before; in Iran, Cambodia, Congo, Central African Republic, and in deep Southern USA in the early 60's. By the look of it, the police don't care about us: they just want to line their pockets with our money while making us look like criminals. This isn¹t in the interest of safety. Its all about the authorities preying on the youth of our city and all about greed as far as I can see.

Toronto a world class city? Third world class more likely.

read it all here - http://www.tribe.ca/issue74/editor74.html[/QUOTE]

[This message has been edited by bucky (edited October 26, 2000).]

onesketch

is the possession and sale of drugs not a crime?
is a person who commits a crime not a criminal?

Phreak

*looks up*

Its good to see at least one person here has some sense..

onesketch is completely right..

although at other events in the city (clubs/concerts) there is the presence of drugs, the rave scene has the stigma of being a "drug haven"

All the steps being put forward by the scene internally are mediocre compared to what could be done. Its good to see the toronto police finally putting their foot down on what has become a major problem in the city.

Like it or not the scene has a LOT of drug use, more than in any other scene, and these drugs are illegal. Common sense dictates that if you have alot of drug use in one place then you're going to be able to stop it with a large number of police.

The more the merrier. If promoters refuse to take STRINGENT action against the drug use in the scene then its up to an outside force to deter this CRIMINAL behavior.

Its all about numbers. per capita theres a larger proponent of people using/dealing drugs at a rave then at any other event. The more PDO's that are brought in result in more arrests, and less OD's. It only makes sense that there is a greater number of police involved at a party.

I won't be attending Freakin this year, I'm working at Nightmate, but I am very glad to know that when i open the paper on sunday or monday, i'll see an article listing off how many people were arrested. I just hope i won't see how many people od'd or died.

As for depicting the scene in a negative light with these articles. Of course it does, and it should. This is a negative aspect of the scene that needs to be dealt with harshly.

With I-dance, we proved that the scene is capable of being positive. Why is it the that we complain when people try to remove the negative aspects from the scene?

Think about it.

Rob
30848888
Phreak@popstar.com

Klubmasta Will

some of you are missing the point.

1. if there is, in fact, a legitimate need for so many police to be there, why do the majority of them stand around in large groups outside the front of the venue? what did the 17 cops at hullabaloo do? they stood around in large groups outside the docks and left at 6 am even though hullabaloo paid for them to be there until 7 am.

2. if there is a need for undercover cops at parties because of the drugs present, then fine, send undercover cops. it is complete BULLSHIT, however, to expect the promoter (who is throwing a 100% legitimate event) to pay for those undercover cops. the police send undercovers into clubs all the time, where the cocaine and other drugs are flowing freely, but do they ask the club-owners to pay for their undercovers? of course not.

the police sent undercovers into the last grateful dead concert, where 50% of the crowd was smoking marijuana, but did they ask the grateful dead to pay for their undercovers? of course not.

the POLICY behind the PDO process deals with *maintaining public safety*. so asking a promoter to pay for uniformed officers to make sure the crowd doesn't riot or get out of hand is fine. but the UNDERCOVER officers are not there for this purpose. the undercovers are there TO MAKE ARRESTS. this does NOT fall within the scope of the PDO process. if the police feel that it is justified to have undercovers patrol the event, then fine, send them. just don't ask the promoters to pay for them. THAT is the issue here.

the police are now asking for 3-5 times more PDOs than at previous events at the exact same venues. they are doing this even though they made a PLEDGE to our city council that they would refer to "past historical practices" in determining how many PDOs to ask for.

as i see it, there can only be two reasons for this sudden increase in numbers:

1. the police want more PDO jobs because they are lucrative jobs. ask any police officer you know and they will tell you that they love getting these assignments because they are easy assignments and they get paid much more than they would during an ordinary shift.

2. the police are trying to use the PDO process to price promoters out of business. it is no secret that chief fantino does not like raves. he tried to convince our city council to ban them, and for a time, he was successful. but now that we have managed to turn the tide in city council (they voted to lift the ban by 50-4), the police are using the PDO process to do something that they do not otherwise have the political power to do.

they cannot ban raves politically so they are doing the next best thing - pricing promoters out of business.

if the police do not like raves, that is their problem. it is not the role of the police to make these kinds of policy decisions for our city. we ELECT politicians to decide what types of things are allowed or not allowed. we did NOT elect the police chief. this type of abuse of process is disgusting and it goes much deeper than just raves.

Klubmasta Will

TranceHed

very very true, but i don't see how more cops is going to ensure less OD's. Reguardless of how many cops are there, each and every person will still be searched at the door for drugs, and if they choose to be stupid and do a shitload of drugs, then their chances of overdose are just the same.

Ghetto Krack Star

This is just another reason why I like smaller parties better...

Big parties = too many problems

Lyndsey

Ade

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phreak:
although at other events in the city (clubs/concerts) there is the presence of drugs, the rave scene has the stigma of being a "drug haven".

All the steps being put forward by the scene internally are mediocre compared to what could be done. Its good to see the toronto police finally putting their foot down on what has become a major problem in the city...

...If promoters refuse to take STRINGENT action against the drug use in the scene then its up to an outside force to deter this CRIMINAL behavior...

...With I-dance, we proved that the scene is capable of being positive. Why is it the that we complain when people try to remove the negative aspects from the scene?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am curious what "STRINGENT action" you are recommending here. When I go to a party, I have to stand in line waiting for my turn to be searched by one or more security guards while police look on, ready to arrest me if the security finds anything. When it is my turn to be searched, I have a complete stranger emptying all of my pockets and poring over their contents. I give a complete stranger my wallet, which has all of my money and various confidential and important documents so that they can look through it. Then I have a complete stranger run their hands all over my body in an attempt to find anything that I may have somehow concealed. At some parties, I am then scanned by a person with a metal-detector.

Perhaps you would rather I endure a strip search? Would this satisfy your desire for "STRINGENT action"?

My non-raver friends have NEVER been searched in their entire LIVES. Sometimes I feel like I'm living in a fucking police state. I can't believe you defend this. Your statement that "the rave scene has the stigma of being a 'drug haven'." is precisely the sort of vague statement the police use to justify this kind of practice. This "stigma" you are talking about is one applied by a biased and judgmental media, fed by grossly distorted and at times outright untrue statements by the police and the politicians. I would rather that judicial policy was based on facts and statistics, not "stigmas".

No one is against the removal of the negative aspects of the scene. The first thing that needs to go is a police and security policy that violates the rights of partiers and promoters alike and is a reproach to both democracy and human dignity.

Peace,

-Ade