jellibeen

Thursday, May 18, 2000

Mother blames raves

By SARAH GREEN, TORONTO SUN
The official cause of Allen Ho's death was complications from an
Ecstasy overdose, but his grieving mother blames it on raves.

"I'm really hurt -- I don't want to see other parents hurt," Mui
Phuong, mother of the 20-year-old Ryerson student, said at her
Scarborough duplex yesterday.

She said her son would be alive today if there had never been a
rave in a stuffy underground garage.

He was found collapsed on the dirty dance floor and died later in
hospital.

'REALLY ANGRY'

Phuong said she'd like to see all-night parties where designer drugs
such as Ecstasy are prevalent banned for good.

"My son died at the party. Nobody takes responsibility. I'm really
angry."

An inquest into Ho's death as well as the broader issue of raves and
Ecstasy use began last week.

Phuong said she wants to pursue legal action once the inquest is
over. But the single mother, who works in the kitchen of a
downtown hotel, doesn't have the money for a lawyer.

"I need something to be fair for my son," Phuong said. "He's so
young. He's so strong. How come he died?"

I feel really bad for her, but her son was the one who made the choices that particular night. I personally don't think anyone else could be blamed for this.

jellibeen

feisty boy

a too feel badly for her. but didn't she decline to testify at the coroner's inquest? wouldn't that have been a good place to voice her anger?

candE kid

Fiesty boy- totally agree with u.

someone needs to tell her that drugs will never stop, even if u ban raves and the scene dies ( ), it's sad but true, u can't stop it,unless we kill ALL the dealers or something like that.

SoundStream

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
"My son died at the party. Nobody takes responsibility. I'm really
angry."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nobody takes responsibility? Nobody is taking responsibility because the person who is responsible is dead.

I wish this lady would understand that her son partook in an illegal activity and in doing so, he put his life in jeopardy. There is no one to blame except himself.

Cheers ... Ian

Vidman

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoundStream:
Nobody takes responsibility? Nobody is taking responsibility because the person who is responsible is dead.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn you!!! That's almost the EXACT words that popped into my head. I was about to post it, but then came across your's!

Ah well, great minds think like mine... errr I mean, alike.

Tee-hee

-=dån=-

[This message has been edited by Vidman (edited May 18, 2000).]

The Rebirth Of Cool

To a mother there is no greater loss then that of her child and while the truth shall set you free for some lessons remain unlearned.

uk_bubbler

the dumb bitch is in denial that her son accidentally KILLED HIMSELF. to put it bluntly.

Roches

yes, exactly.

it's his fault.

our society is very good at passing blame
but it is ONLY his fault. he went there, he bought and swallowed the drugs, it's his fault. not the promoter, not "raving". it's his fault. alone.

it's also his mother and father's fault for giving him the below-average metabolic rate that killed him...

sorry for being cold, but it's not MY scene that makes people die.

Commander Keen

I think that there is no right or wrong in any arguement.
From a promoters point of view, it is clear that Allan Ho took the drugs on his own. No one forced him to take them. Apparently, he took multiple pills, whish is foolish. Thus part of the blame should fall upon him.

I assume that the promoter did his best to provide adaquate safety, but the security just dragged the body out into the parking lot. The promoter should have provided some kind of training to teh security so that Allan could have gotten medical attention sooner. Thus, I believe the promoter should be held accountable somewhat.

thats me 2 cents.

ps

Roches:

I agree with you totally about society passing on the blame to someone else. It disgusts me. But I also think that we should be understanding towatds the family of Allan Ho. How would you react if you were in their shoes?

Steve

Commander Keen

I know its not the promoters job to protect partiers from ODing, but it would be foolish to not be prepared incase stuff like this happens. Unless drug use becomes less rampant, things like this will continue to happen. I think that its in the promoters best interest, and the venue for teh security to ahve some basic medical knowledge. Kicking the person out isn't the best solution.

Steve

Roches

oh of course i'd be sad. but their grief doesn't really give them the right to believe it wasn't his fault. i know i'd be blaming other people if i were the parent of a kid that died from MDMA, but... objective, it's his fault.

security isnt really expected to have advanced medical knowledge. neither is a promoter. it's not their job.

oh, uh, to the people faulting henry wong for not getting help faster: he was probably on drugs too.

Roches

oh of course i'd be sad. but their grief doesn't really give them the right to believe it wasn't his fault. i know i'd be blaming other people if i were the parent of a kid that died from MDMA, but... objective, it's his fault.

security isnt really expected to have advanced medical knowledge. neither is a promoter. it's not their job.

oh, uh, to the people faulting henry wong for not getting help faster: he was probably on drugs too.

ducky

My mom just died from an overdose on LEGAL prescription drugs. This is the hardest thing I have EVER faced, and I have seen some nasty and scary shit.

Unfortunately, you can't prevent pain like this. You can't ban all the drugs, and if you do, people will take them anyway. I wish people never had to go through this pain, but they do. They is an response of a mother in anguish who has lost her son.

The hardest thing is to realize that people can, will, and need to make their own decisions in life. The only thing you can really do if you care is to keep people informed on the decisions they're making. The best thing you can do is to have drug-awareness, and that doesn't mean hysteria. No one's going to listen to overblown drug propoghandha, but if you want to present the truth, then drug-takers can at least make an informed decision.

What is truly truly tragic is the death of people who don't want to kill themselves.
If cops really care, and if anti-drug people really care, inform people of the risks. There's a lot of heat.. and that means awareness is being raised on punishment. Why not put equal effort into informing people? In-depth, truthful information is the only thing that is going to help, in my opinion. Propogandha, condemning people or drugs altogether is pointless. This kind of thing targets the non-drug takers, who then feel they should punish and eradicate. You can't STOP drug use.

I agree with Commander Keen- why the FUCK didn't the security guards take care of this guy instead of throwing him out into the cold? Did they think death would be a fair punishment? If it is within their reach, the security guards should have saved his life, even though it was the guy's fault his life was in danger.

I think the people who have dealt with this issue up close will have more perspective. The mother: as I said, she just lost a son. Don't expect much from the grieving, because if you have been there, you know it's harder than you could imagine if you haven't.

Christy

[This message has been edited by ducky (edited May 18, 2000).]

Jeffsus

I imagine there is no one on this board who has experienced the torture of the death of their child. The excruciating anguish which this mother is experiencing is completely ineffable to us, and so far beyond the scope of anything any of us could imagine that I find it absolutely repugnant that several here feel justified to so coldly comment on it.

We *cannot* understand her mindset, and must excuse that she is looking, desperately, for any comforting solution.

As an elder, she obviously feels that her naiive child was taken advantage of. Perhaps there is an element of truth in her concerns.

UK_BUBBLER:
I am at a loss for words. The hypocracy, that you associate with rave culture and then can go ahead with such a comment, is absolutely mind boggling. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you are merely an idiot, and were innocently endowed with some sort of substandard intelligence which prevents you from sympathizing with this poor woman. A deep sadness comes over me when I see that this is the calibre of personality I am 'priviledged' to party with.... Truly, utterly, unbelievable...

Roches

no, she shouldnt be brought into it.

but likewise she shouldn't really expect anyone to accept responsibility.

supporting a grieving mother and placing responsibility in the wrong places to comfort her are different things.
the purpose of the inquest is to determine why the person died. they will probably misplace blame too.

it's actually a really sad story.
more than most, that article actually does put a human face on the issue.

maybe if more people did look at it as a human issue, they'd understand.

this is about one person.
this is not an epic battle of the evil drug-infested Scene against nameless yet important Chilren. this is not about the theoretical possibility that it could happen again.

i was looking through the sun and i saw an article about a kid who drowned after jumping off a boat. he was drunk. there was a party going on around him. why didnt that make front page? why doesn't he get a coroner's inquest? why don't i remember his name?

EsSe / DaY DrEaM

all i can say is that i'm disgusted that you people can even say that about someone.

Did you know that RESPECT in PLUR includes giving them respect even if it's threating something? I mean. People, Places thing deserve repect no matter what there oppinion is. You can try and change thier oppinion and if it's a good argument (and they give you enough respect to listen ) then you can win the fight.

don't drag his mom into this. She doesn't deserve this.
dawn

Jess

i do feel very badly for her
but it's no one's fault but Mr. Ho's, everyone makes mistakes unfortunatly his was fatal. a woman wants to shut down a whole scene, because her son died from a drug HE ingested?
doesn;t make sense
that kid died at a hockey game...that mother isn';t going to shut down the whole sport
later dudes,
jess

ADT

all i have to say is that when i left that party my exact words were...

"that place was way too hot, and the ventilation was horrible...someone could have died in there"...

EsSe / DaY DrEaM

yes... i agree.. i didn't have a good time at that party. I left at about 4 am because of it. I can't explain exactly just why but...

Yes. He did do some drugs. But this is the risk that most people take when they do any drugs. including prescription (i'm one of ducky's friends)

but please... You are blaming her for this scene to be shut down. If you didn't do the drugs then this wouldn't have happend (YOU meaning the whole drug part of raving) I have NEVER done e, jib.. or any other "rave realted drug" and if I was to put blame on anyone for this whole mess it would be the CRACK ADDICTS, JIB HEADS and E-TARDS.

I enjoy raving WAY too much. This whole media thingis making me very sad. But give me a break. Don't just say it's his fault. Who are the people giving him the example to do drugs? who are the people who gave him the drugs to do??

i don't fight with the media. I'm just saying... Since we are all passing blame...

pukka

dont you think someone from hullabaloo should at least apologize to the family??? or show at least some signs of remorse????? no wonder so much bad stuff has been going on...pure karma....and its not going to get better....its going to go over 3fold
http://www.pukkadawn.com

jellibeen

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Don't just say it's his fault. Who are the people giving him the example to do drugs?
who are the people who gave him the drugs to do?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry, I have to disagree, he was responsible for his own actions. No matter what the influences or the drug dealers, he is the one who popped the pill(s) into his mouth. If my parents were in the same shoes as Allan Ho's mother, do you know who they would blame? Myself and myself only, as it always has been whenever I have screwed up. If I killed myself drinking and driving, it's my fault for getting behind the wheel, not the bartender for serving me or my friends who went to the establishment with me. Peer pressure? My fault for listening to them. The dealer who sold me the drugs? Shouldn't have been doing them in the first place as they have told me time and time again how drugs are bad for you. I understand that she is very upset and rightfully so, but don't put the blame on others. I certainly don't see sober people dying at parties in this area, it's not raves themselves that are doing it. This whole case is very tragic and could have happened to anyone, but you play roulette anytime you take an illicit substance and people know there are some kind of risks involved, whether they are fatal ones or not.

uk_bubbler-you disgust me, show some respect. You can disagree with what she says, but imagine what she has gone through, childish name calling certainly isn't necessary nor called for.

jellibeen


[This message has been edited by jellibeen (edited May 19, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by jellibeen (edited May 19, 2000).]

SpEcS

First:

The EMS people were right on top of him as soon as he got out the door. They are the paramedics, not the security. When it comes to an overdose, you can't do anythign except get him out of the party to the ambulance and waiting medical personel. The security's job is to spot there has been an overdose and then get him out of there as fast as possible. Help would have gotten there sooner if Henry Wong hadn't waited so godamned long.

Frolic should not appologise. It was Allen's fault for taking the drugs, not Frolics. If anyone overdosed at F3, I would be upset, but it is not my responsibility. If there were no security or medical personel on the premisises, then it would be the promoters fault.

So there....


SpEcS
-F3 Productions http://www.f3.tsx.org
416-703-5643

blueshrike

Hey people. Just let this subject drop. Please.

Jess

i saw the mother at the inquest friday afternoon, it made me so sad. All responsoblity is in Mr. Ho's hands, however I do agree it was irresponisible to have a rave in such a shitty "venue". However, i don't think anyone will ever be able to prove whether Allen Ho's death was inevitable, or was it the conditions of the environment he was in?
it's a very sad situation and i think everyone should show remorse, an innocent raver died...who cares if there is no one to blame?...it is an extremely unfortunate situation,
lots of love,
Jess