~^^OpTiMuS pRiMe^^~

P-A-R-T----Y?..... Because we've got to!

ProdigyBoy

wemf was the most fun i had in awhile.
i can understand them having problems with the venue and those that would pursue after it.

BUT leaving ppl in the dark on what was going on was horible. if i was aware there was no running water i would have brought extra bottles. if i could see a problem with a shuttle bus i would find other ways of getting there.
then finding out the owner of the field is part of Hell Angles just got me even more upset.

im going to idance to have some fun, and let for ppl to hear my voice. promoters and officals, public and partiers.

later,
Cameron Bay.

ps- your the 2nd princess julia i know =)

~*~pRiNcEsS juLiA~*~

Cameron: you know what I definitely do agree that it would have been great to know AHEAD of time, esp. so that we could have brought more water bottles!!
The owner of the property was part of Hells Angels??? really? how did you find this out!

Hmmm. you know another pRiNcEsS juLiA!? iunno! i'm the only one from the hullaboard. meh! maybe we met before! hmm, iunno!

Anyways, yes I can NOT wait for I.DANCE!! yih yih!! )


-=pRiNcEsS juLiA=-

Roches

okay.

i've half-addressed this before but.. one more time.

water: there was running water, although it was questionably potable and "at your own risk".. which, really, is about as good as you're going to get for a location in the middle of a field.

harm reduction: there were trip people there, but no booth. i'm not sure why. maybe they have a reason for that. also, dancesafe doesn't have a chapter here. probably because the toronto scene doesn't care at all about that kind of thing. anyone know what the marquis reagent is?

busses: there were busses. they were several hours late. that's all.

anyway, iDance is not a political statement of any kind.
it's a please let us rave sort of thing and that's all.

but zinc is there.
i'm guessing the current massive, for the most part, doesn't know who zinc is.
but he's there.

anabolic frolic

from my understanding of how TRIP works;

They are funded to operate within the CITY of TORONTO by Toronto Public Health. They are not mandated to offer harm reduction at parties outside the city (especially hours away). A fully functional TRIP booth requires both TRIP volunteers and also a paid "supervisor" (not sure of the exact term). Volunteers alone cannot run a booth. Thats why they are not at every party even in Toronto, a supervisor might not be available to run it.

Generally if they can't run an official booth the volunteers will bring harm reduction paperwork with them to distribute.

doctorteeth

actually it's because Toronto's finest refuse to even consider the kind of amnesty agreements that enable DanceSafe to operate at events.
In addition, friends of mine running Baltimore's RPM (Responsible Party Movment) have reported that promoters refuse DanceSafe to operate at their events because they don't want ot be perceived as permitting drug use. So I wouldn't be surprised if that holds true here too.

as per its Mission Statement ...

doctorteeth

The official iDance position on the event's political content is as follows:

[blockquote]“iDance is not a political party. our only *political* agenda is that which you see in our Mission Statement:
http://www.tribemagazine.com/ubb/Fo...TML/000003.html
iDance has two goals: (1) to showcase and celebrate the myriad of artistic talents that exist within the electronic music scene and (2) to show the massive strength and unity of the electronic music community.”[/blockquote][p]

In the debate this position provoked -- over the fate of iDance’s political legacy – the iDance crew argued “that the support of recognized corporations HELPS US get our message across”. An apparently apolitical message. The problem with iDance’s defence of corporate sponsorship – that it helps show the powers that be how the tdot scene is a legitimate culture -- is that it shifts the terms of the debate away from not only the real political agenda of iDance 2001 but also the real politics in which the tdot scene remains mired.

The point of iDance 2000 was to rally ravers for a demonstration of solidarity against the crackdown instigated by police and policy makers. Apparently, the point of iDance 2001 is to show the authorities that the tdot rave scene is a legitimate culture because it’s endorsed by the world’s biggest corporation.

In this way, the official iDance position is implicitly conservative: It only makes sense for those who think that the legitimation of rave (in the conversion of rave culture to club culture, for instance) is a good thing.

However, the official iDance position makes no sense for those who feel that the core of the tdot rave scene remains a diverse, counter-cultural Do-It-Yourself community. And for many in this community, the tdot scene represents a creative combat against the loss of public space and free expression to private interests and advertising; a movement that advocates citizens’ and youths’ rights in the face of regressive social policies; a community founded on principles that oppose the human and ecological catastrophes being perpetrated by economic globalization.

In short, this year rave is about industry, whereas last year was about community.

It is a symptom of iDance 2001’s mismanagement that its organizers have failed to account for how the entire tdot rave community feels a sense of ownership in the iDance rally. A sense of ownership that extends beyond the iDance crew or the PPP, a sense of ownership shared most importantly by the countless ravers who came from across North America in solidarity. But by making corporate sponsorship its top priority, iDance 2001 has pushed the community down on its priority list. For the sake of speed in decision-making, they have made assumptions about what the community is, and what it wants. Community consultation does not simply mean having people donate food or make signs, it means reflecting community priorities in the content of the event instead of just financial ones.

So whereas last year’s iDance brought the scene’s communities together, this year’s iDance breeds dissent and divisiveness (even before the event, no less). Although the iDance communications and advertising suggest that it will provide a genuine community forum, the net result is that one massive corporate voice (a merger, if you will, of the tdot rave scene’s biggest business interests) will claim to speak for a community that feels widely alienated and excluded from its representations.

However, the gravest problem with the official iDance position on what does and does not count as its political messaging is that it also shifts the terms of the debate away from what should be its primary rallying point: the “real politics” of trenchant police unaccountability and exorbitant demands for privately funded enforcement operations through which the tdot’s largest and most famous events must struggle to happen at all: consider the debacle that flushed Liquid Adrenaline out of the water park, or the cat-and-mouse game that played hell with this year’s WEMF.

So why is the police problem not being addressed as iDance 2001’s raison d’etre? Because no corporation, Microsoft and Torstar included, will want to be associated with an anti-police stance. Despite protests to the contrary, accepting money from the man has therefore muzzled iDance from presenting an event with any sense of real politics.

"This is perhaps branding's cruelest irony: most manufacturers and retailers begin by seeking out authentic scenes, important causes and cherished public events so that these things will infuse their brands with meaning. Such gestures are frequently motivated by genuine admiration and generosity. Too often, however, the expansive nature of the branding process ends up causing the event to be usurped ... not only do fans begin to feel a sense of alienation from (if not outright resentment toward) once-cherished cultural events, but the sponsors lose what they need most: a feeling of authenticity with which to associate their brands." (Naomi Klein, _No Logo_)

ProdigyBoy

princess julia>
the owner of the property being part of the Hells Angels i was told to by an OPP officer i was speaking to for around 2 hours. Yes i know it's a cop being an source but they were being far more honest with things then destiny. They also mentioned that a long time ago this property was used for i believe a gig called "bob' stock". he mentioned the acts and said it some what a simular scene. he was not 100% positive if it was the same field but most the different opp members thought soo.
-the other princess julia i know does not party =S

roches>
oh boy. running water at a party should be clean. im not gonna fight any more on that topic

doctor teeth>
i have no idea how you compile on this information that you do (on iDANCE and the scene) but you put great arguments. yet again im going to have to think about all your points befroe and look into things before i have my own conclusions.

regarding the harms reduction and TRIP it was good to hear that information about it. there are lots of politics involved with it which i had seen with dance safe's US court cases but i didn't understand the workign of TRIP. well dispite these political reasons i think it should have been the promoters responsibility that they had this information out there. if they had to divert some money from the printing of there flyers to papers on drug health fine. i don''t do drugs but it was obvious the amount of people doing them and over 3 days here may have been a place where information would have been the best way to prevent a tragedy.

at first i thought that this years idance should just be a good time and show of the rave scene. then dr teeth present alot of the other issues happening and it changed my mind. now after wemf, idances mission statement and such im not to impressed in what idance2001 is for.
I dont have the confidence in all the promoters (some of which are hosting idance) as i onece did. things have to go in favour of the ppl again. business is good but not in the way a few of these parties have been conducted. think the way i will make my difference is supporting those parties that do take care of the ppl.
might not mean the scene will be safer but atleast im insured that the parties im at are.

Cameron Bay.

ps- with the creation of the idance forum im not sure if this thread will continue. some of the points in this thread are those opposed to the promoters so it may be terminated. either way il be following the posts on these topics where ever i can. if there is a better forum for free speech of partiers plz let me know.

thedirtchamber@hotmail.com

Klubmasta Will

This will be a very long reply but we feel the need to address the PPP position as it contains a number of misconceptions.

That is not the point of iDance 2001 at all. Our message - that we are a strong vibrant community that will not accept unfair targetting - remains at the forefront. The fact that a portion of the event is being paid for by sponsors does not alter that message at all. If some people cannot see the endless potential for diversity and community participation at this year's event, then that is unfortunate.

If you believe in UNITY, then you should support our principle that ANYONE who wants to participate and who can offer something is welcome to do so, whether that someone is a large promoter, a small promoter, a 1-person clothing company, or even Xbox.

The iDance organizers and volunteers have communicated with anyone and everyone who have taken the time to discuss matters of concern from day one. The community is divided on the issue of corporate sponsorship but many of the people who initially had a knee-jerk negative reaction came to understand our position after reading our EXPLANATION for accepting sponsorship. If you have not read that explanation, then you can find it in the thread titled "Corporate Sponsorship": http://www.tribemagazine.com/ubb/Fo...TML/000002.html

If we had turned down the sponsorship that was offered to us, then the community could have accused us of actively EXCLUDING organizations that were offering support. As mentioned earlier, iDance will not exlude anyone that is willing and able to contribute to the event. If some people feel the need to EXCLUDE THEMSELVES because of the identities of some of our other supporters, then that is unfortunate.

You are making unfounded assumptions here. Our sponsors have not set our agenda. They simply want to offer support in return for some community recognition of that support.

Anyone who feels "alienated or excluded" from the event should contact us. They have always been welcome to suggest content, offer speakers or participate in other ways. We are currently in the process of choosing speakers and drafting media releases. We would LOVE to have the participation of those groups that feel excluded. Our door has always been open to those groups and our invitation still stands.

Why are you assuming that we will not put those issues front and centre at this year's iDance event? The VICTIMS of those events that you listed - the ones that lost THOUSANDS of dollars as a result of those events - are among our strongest supporters.

Please refer again to our full MISSION STATEMENT. You can find it in our booklet, on our website and reprinted in the thread titled "iDance 2001 Mission Statement ...": http://www.tribemagazine.com/ubb/Fo...TML/000003.html

As you can see, we have addressed (and we will continue to address) the police targetting problem. Our list of speakers currently includes Professor Alan Young, Daniel Richler, City Councillor Olivia Chow, Barbara Hall and John Sewell - some of the most recognized and influential speakers on those issues. If you have other speakers to suggest or if you would like to help draft press releases to ensure that we cover those issues properly, then please accept our invitation to participate in those processes.

The fundamental problem here is that the PPP has assumed that our sponsors are dictating what we can and cannot do at the iDance event. This is a misconception and it is insulting to the organizers and the sponsors that have offered support to our cause.

Get involved in the process. Help up shape the content through selecting speakers and drafting releases and you will see. Our invitation still stands. All you need to do is accept the invitation.

Peace and respect.

Everybodies_Daddy

What ever happened with that Interbrew/Hullabaloo thing? or was that an April Fools joke?

MCED

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