Kandifox

Lol okay....
now we must fill everyone in on the one dolla joke....

XxLuVBuGxX

Robin Frolic

I haven't read enough mpreg to get a really good description, but my guess would be that it's the ass route. It seems to me that that would be far more painful than a vaginal exit, but I guess those poor pregnant guys don't have much choice.

theFlash6342

Ok first off this is just WRONG!!!! LOL, I refuse to try to have any babies from this hole, sorry ladies your better equiped. and Robin Im sorry i called you a hoe i guess i should have said PERV..... look at where this innocent lil thread went too. but i do have to say that mpreg def. made me see things in a whole new light, wow people are strange! lol. too each their own and kyle if you need maternity clothes i know a girl trying to get rid of some, lol. kidding babie

__________________
The FlashThe FlashThe Flash

Minkis

NOOOOOO babies are coming out of any of MY HOLES!

and come on, DA? ewwwwwwww

__________________
carpe diem: seize the...carp...
Don't you know? The earth stops spinning if you don't dance on it.
"Nobody likes you!" "...I like me..."

kasihime

Awwe... come on... if we can do it I'm sure you can too....

XxLuVBuGxX

EvoldicA

This thread needs more pictures from Junior:


Or maybe you are a fan of the x-files:

XxLuVBuGxX

theFlash6342

no butt babies, i say nay to the butt babies!!!!!!! its just ........WOW!

XxLuVBuGxX

SkItLeS

they could always cut it out.

__________________
my addiction is bass. nothing else does the body as much good.

Kandifox

But isnt that like always a last resort?

And also kinda dangerous?

O.O

XxLuVBuGxX

Kandifox

Uhh meeeee too lol...
SICK

XxLuVBuGxX

Robin Frolic

It should be, yes. Unfortunately, 25-30% of babies in North America are now delivered via c-section. Many of those cesareans occur as a direct result of complications caused by routine hospital interventions. You go into a hospital to have a baby, you have a 1 in 4 chance of having major abdominal surgery.

For the record, the World Health Organization says the cesarean rate should NEVER be above 10-15%. And a good midwife often has a cesarean-transfer rate of 5%. So it shows pretty clearly that most cesareans are complete bullshit, and/or are caused by standard hospital practice.

This used to upset me, but I don't really care that much anymore. I think, "You bought it, you own it." If you choose to have a surgeon (obstetricians are surgeons) for your caregiver, and you choose to give birth in a place where you know the chance is 1 in 4 you will get cut, then that's your own choice.

Yes, both for that pregnancy and for future pregnancies. Cesarean birth is four times more dangerous than vaginal birth, and chances of uterine rupture (literally, the uterus splitting open, which is a life-threatening condition) is doubled for future pregnancies. Risk of placenta previa (placenta covering the cervix, requiring repeat cesarean) is four times as high in future pregnancies, secondary infertility can be a serious problem, and placental abruption (where the placenta detaches from the uterus, which is also life-threatening for the baby and also can be for the mother due to hemorrhage) is almost doubled in risk for future pregnancies. Rates of babies getting accidentally cut with the scalpel during cesarean deliveries can be as high as 15%, and I'm not even going to address the significantly increased risk of breathing difficulties for the newborn post-birth. And this isn't addressing the risks of epidural anesthesia (always used for cesarean births unless it's an emergency, in which case general anesthetic is sometimes used, and that's even riskier) or the narcotics post-birth. And don't forget significantly longer recovery time after the birth, long-term nerve and muscle damage, uterine scarring, increased rates of difficulty establishing breastfeeding, difficulty caring for the newborn due to pain, etc.

That's just a very short list of why cesareans are a terrible idea except in emergencies, and why it's a terrible idea to have so many hospital procedures that increase the risk of causing an emergency. (Going into more detail about hospital procedures causing emergencies would be a long post all by itself, but if anyone's interested, I'm more than happy to do so.)

DJ Saiyan

This sounds like it could be graphic and disgusting, so I would like to hear more.

__________________

F1SH3 RAVER

My wifey and I had our baby... in a hospital... not a c-section baby... and he is precious...

she didn't even have an episiotomy (spell check anyone?) Oh well, thought I would add my 2 Cents... (48 more and it would be my fiddy cent! )

Robin Frolic

Congrats, F1SH3, you were one of the 3 in 4 that escaped a cesarean. But that doesn't mean that birthing in hospitals isn't inherently risky, or that your baby didn't suffer other side effects due to common hospital procedures. For example - was your baby's cord clamped immediately after birth? That would have deprived him/her of up to 30% of his/her blood supply, which means s/he needed to spend precious energy in the first few days struggling to increase his/her blood supply. Did they put erythromicin eye ointment in the baby's eyes? That made your baby unable to see properly for the first hour or so after birth, which is an incredibly important time when the baby is supposed to be focusing intently on mama's face. If your wife had EFM (electronic fetal monitoring, using the ultrasound belts), there's been studies linking ultrasound exposure to cell death and permanent changes in the fetal brain.

While I'm glad for you that your wife and your baby turned out fine, you're not going to succeed in trying to debate your anecdotal positive experience against my years of training in midwifery and extensive ongoing research about labor and birth. I KNOW this subject inside and out, so if the best you have to bring is "well, we were okay! and she didn't even get a deliberate and almost-always unnecessary deep cut through her muscle and nerves, so it must have been good!" then it's just not going to work. Instead of viewing it as some kind of supporting evidence that the hospital is a good place for low-risk birth, I'd advise you to thank your lucky stars that your wife and baby escaped relatively unscathed despite the risks.

I'm not one of those people who believes hospitals never have a place in birth; they do. FOR EMERGENCIES. For times when birth is not progressing as it should. But they do not have a place in routine, low-risk birth, unless you feel like deliberately placing the birthing woman and the baby at much higher risk for complications and damage.

Not so much graphic and disgusting, and this is only a very small list, but it should give you some idea.

1) Lying on the back significantly increases the risk of malpresentation (when the baby drops in a poor position). Women birthing who are not confined to hospitals are almost never on their backs; it is not a natural, instinctive position to assume, and in addition, it decreases oxygen to the baby because the baby's weight is directly on the mother's posterior vena cava. Malpresentation often ends in cesarean.

2) Induction places a large number of risks both on the mother and baby. A partial list for the mother: blood pressure issues, risk of uterine rupture is increased, risk of a "failed induction" (meaning they tried to induce her before her body was ready to go into labor) turning into a cesarean, increased risk of malpresentation, it requires continuous monitoring, and it significantly increases pain (thereby increasing the possibility of an epidural, which has a long list of risks both for mother and baby). A partial list for the baby: decreased oxygen availability, fetal distress/heart rate dropping, contractions that are much longer and stronger than anything encountered in normal life (meaning, the baby is squeezed for much longer, and harder, than would ever happen in nature).

3) Epidurals are another risky procedure. For the mother, they can cause hypotension (an extreme drop in blood pressure), prolonged dilation stage of labor, puncture of the dura and accompanying spinal headache, infection, long-term backache (that's quite common), nerve damage, reactions to the anesthetic itself, significantly increased risk of augmentation, increased risk of cesarean, and in very rare cases there has been permanent paralyzation or even death. For the baby, they can cause significantly increased risk of fetal distress, insufficient oxygenation, difficulty breathing after birth (which requires the use of oxygen and other interventions to help the newborn breathe, some of which can be quite traumatic and almost all require being removed from the mother), and difficulty breastfeeding (formula use leads to increased rates of SIDS as well as MANY other illnesses and chronic conditions, some of which are potentially fatal and almost all of which detract from quality of life).

4) Vaginal exams, which are a common part of laboring in the hospital, are extremely painful and increase risk of infection for both mother and baby. Infection or fever in the baby is quite serious and usually requires a spinal tap (a very painful procedure) if it's suspected. It may even require the baby being in the NICU for observation.

5) Amniotomy (breaking the bag of waters) increases risk of malpresentation, fetal distress, and infection.

An intervention causing more interventions is often referred to as "the intervention cascade". For example, woman checks into the hospital, is given a vaginal exam and hooked up to EFM.
Vaginal exam -> increased risk of infection -> starts "countdown timer" of 24 hours in which she has to give birth or receive a cesarean

EFM -> difficulty picking up heartrate -> internal EFM (where a small screw is placed into the baby's scalp, with a line running back through the cervix and vagina to a machine that detects the baby's heartrate) -> internal EFM requires lying down in bed -> lying down in bed increases pain -> epidural -> risks of epidural

Induction -> requires continuous monitoring -> requires being in bed -> usually requires epidural due to significantly increased pain -> requires continuing blood pressure monitoring as well as the fetal monitoring -> woman is unable to walk and go to the bathroom, therefore requires a catheter to urinate -> pitocin and epidural also increase risk of malpresentation -> increases risk of instrumental delivery (vacuum or forceps) or cesarean -> instrumental delivery can cause structural damage to the baby, cesarean often causes breathing difficulties -> invasive and stressful interventions to help baby breathe

I could go on with a lot more examples, but I think you get the idea.

If anyone wants a lot of further info, an easily available and good resource (meaning, written for the average person, so it's not difficult to get through, and you don't need to have years of specialized training to understand it) is The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth by Henci Goer. It goes through the most common hospital interventions and details the pros and cons. If you have a medical background, Goer's Obstetric Myths vs Research Realities is more extensive, but it would probably be difficult for a layperson to wade through.

XxLuVBuGxX

Robin Frolic

Yeah, Frolic said, "If people want to continue the conversation past this point, you may want to split it into two threads."

It's a subject that's dear to my heart. I'm cynical by this point about people ever getting over their fear enough to be honest about the realities of hospital birth (the people who say "I'm having the baby in the hospital just in case" drive me apeshit; "just in case" scenarios are a hell of a lot more likely to happen if you're in the hospital, and then they're so glad they were in the hospital because they think otherwise they or the baby would have died), but that doesn't stop me from trying to educate people when the situation arises. Who knows, maybe having read this discussion will light the spark in somebody to continue researching the subject, and that may save them from the risks of a medicalized birth sometime down the line, or at least make them educated enough to reduce the risks as much as they can.

XxLuVBuGxX

Robin Frolic

Before you have kids is definitely the time to research it. I know far too many women who wish they'd known about the risks _before_ they had in-hospital births and ended up with unnecessary complications. That's actually why a lot of unassisted birthers end up turning to unassisted birth; they had negative experiences in the hospital, started doing research, and realized they didn't want to make the same mistake again.