Dj Borg

I agree.

Here's a scenario pro gay marriage.

A woman has a baby. She turns out to be a homosexual but has a baby anyways by some method, the method does not matter because we all agree that a woman has the right to bear a child alone.

She has a life partner ( a woman, obviously) who loves her and her child more than her own life. Her partner is a business professional with a good income. They decide that the partner should go out to work and she will stay home and take care of the house and raise the child.

They buy a house and a car and pay their taxes. They raise the child, send her/him to school and start a life savings. The partner applies for life insurance to protect her family in case something happens to her.

The partner is killed one day on her way to work in a terrible accident.

The government takes half of her ownings in taxes, that includes half the equity of the house. Since marriage of same sex couples is not allowed half of the life insurance is also seized. Then the partners family applies for the rest of the money because like society they also do not believe in same sex marriage. They have first dibs because they are family, she is just some woman that knew her.

We now have a woman who has sacrificed her career for the good of her child. She can only do a limited number of low paying jobs. She has lost her house, car and most of her life savings because in the eyes of the government they were never hers to begin with because her partner happened to be the same sex as her. How does a law like this help society?

Now if this was a man and a woman the scenario would be totally different. They would be a spouse and therefore have the right to the life savings dirrectly without worrying about the government taking taxes off of it. The husband or wife would obviously have first rights as benificiaries to the life insurance plan, not the family of the decesed. Even if they were not married the argument that they have a right to the money would be made much more easily.

I'm sorry if the above senario isn't perfect, I have paraphrased it (poorly) to make my point.

People get married and don't have kids. People get married and split up. People get married and become horrible parents. The only argument I see con gay marriage is a religious argument. And I and everyone else in this country has a right to freedom of religion. That also means a freedom from religion and that to me means you should be able to marry whomever you want to.

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GummiBear

That is a very good pooint, thats why there should be the same rights of a married couple offered for people who dont want to get that whole stupid ceremony...just a partner. Maybe for people like me who dont want to get married, make some sort of program where people can do all that without the church..and cal lit something else so the church doesnt get mad.


Isnt church and govt. soupposed to be sepaarete anyway? wtf is up with all this legal crap going on with marraiges which come from religion!!!!!!!! AHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Religion..*shudders*

fREAKYjUNGLIST

gay marriages rock....and they are okay in my book!

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grincoregenetix

as much as i respect your opinion, i kinda disagree. i live on long island where homosexuality is still pretty taboo, and yet on the island there are numerous gay foster couples taking kids in and believe it or not have had increadible impacts on kids. from what i've heard there is one gay male couple who are one of the top recommended for foster care. this was written in NEWSDAY for that matter and i was really surprised. i think that there's really no reason that they shouldn't have children. i mean if a couple either gay or straight loves a child unconditionally, then that's enuff for the child. but that's just my opinion based on what i've read.

also, of course i think gay marriage should be allowed cuz i'm gay

i've been with my boyfriend for 10 months. i've never in my life ever cared about marriage. every day waking up to him, every day i swear i love him more. i don't think that anyone will ever make me feel this way, nor will i ever feel so completely myself around anyone else. the thought of never being able to walk him down the isle is not just upsetting but extremely unfair.

opposing gay marraige is just another way for the majority to seperate themselves from the minority. to have control.
it is a constant reminder to gay people that they are different, that they cannot have the things that one day become important to any individual that has a beating heart, and it is a smack in the face.

being gay is not a choice. i will never understand why i am gay. you can just only accept that it is who you are and be proud of it, which honestly is all the more difficult when you are constantly reminded that you are different, that you can't hold your partners hand walking down the street. that you actually have to worry about someone beating you to death and leaving you tied up on a fence.

that's just my 2 cents...

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grincoregenetix

to add to that, it is really awesome to see the positive comments on here. not that i'm that surprised, it being the hullaboard and all

::sighs:: if only the world were a giant hullabaloo

Xphox

I know what I said was harsh, and I'm sorry, but that is my oppinion. I feel that young children exposed to gay parents does in fact increase the chance of the child developping same sex feelings, since they see it everyday, and think it to be normal.

Applefaerie

it is normal. also, go back a page and read my argument on this.

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Xphox

See.. this is why I don't like to get started on these topics..

I don't feel it's normal. I did read you agrument, and I still belive my oppinion is correct, even though I might be dead wrong.

Applefaerie

well it's not "normal" to be a raver, either.


your opinion is your opinion, i just get really really frustrated when people run around and point the finger at a group of people and tell them its not right to be as they are, when they really can't change who they are. its like, for me in high school. or hell, even earlier. i have been "different" since i can remember. i never got along with other kids, i always dressed too weird or liked weird things or had an accent that wasn't "normal" for the area, even now, i speak with a jumble of accents, comprised of chicago, florida and irish accents. all through my childhood i was teased, and in highschool, i was violently taunted for dressing different than the other kids, refusing to wear makeup for a lot of it, speaking with a weird accent, dying my hair a different color, having 5 holes in my ear when it wasnt "cool" to be all pierced...
why do people feel the need to try and put down people they make no attempt to get to know or understand? to tell them how they behave is not "normal" and they better change or else. while dressing diferently didnt result in my being killed, being gay makes you a target, sad but true.
being raised in a paticular environment may dictate some behaviors, but it cannot physically change your genetics, homosexuality is in your genes. the only cases where it is not genetic are abuse cases. fathers who molested their kids for god knows what reason. mothers who indignified their boys because they wanted a girl, not a stupid boy.
if anything, i feel homosexual parents are the best option for parents, as being who they are and raised in a society where they have been told time and time again, by family, by complete strangers that what they are is wrong and not normal. i feel they will allow their child to grow up to become whatever they want to be, no indoctrinization of "stop being so WEIRD thats not NORMAL people will laugh at you/beat you up/make fun of you".

i feel pretty passionately about pointing fingers at people and telling them that they are weird or "not normal" or disgusting or ugly or anything.


but, like you said, it is your opinion, and that is okay. my opinion is mine, and i believe my opinion is correct.

Xphox

Ouch.. I won't speak again on this subject.. I wasn't trying to put anyone down.

*leaving for hulla now*

Applefaerie

eh, i didnt mean to hurt you with that, sorry if i did dude.

have fun at hulla *jealous*

GummiBear

I think its pretty funy that people get all offended and stuff...then like 20 times people keep restating that its THEIR OPINION...Of course...its everyones opinion, no need to get offended about anything, no need to apoligize. If someone gets offended, thats their problem...*shrugs*

good times

RexFader

I grew up with my straight parents, and they were "normal," but I still turned out to be non-str8. :-)

If I really had a choice in the matter, being hetero would've been a whole lot easier. Then again, everybody goes through the same kinds of shit in life anyway, so.. misery loves company.

Anyhow, my point is, kids will always imitate older folks.. but when you grow up, there's no way you can fake how or what you feel. (and if you can, then I guarantee that you'd grow up a bitter and jaded fool)

ttyl

-=[mArKoS]=-

EvilElf

Hey everyone!

First of all I am strait and Russian Orthodox.

The bible is written for all humans to get along and live in peace and, the bible is there to follow not to be changed because those are god’s words of advice to the human kind. If the church is against gay marriages they have all the right in the world to say it and if you don’t like it, tough.
Also church is not democracy it’s more like dictatorship where the god’s words are law and if you break the law you must be punished. As we all know what is going on with the main Christian churches in the world it’s all because this modernization of the church which will eventually lead to the certain churches to fade away. Some things must stay unchanged and I think the bible and religion should be one of them. So far only Canadians are for gay marriages because the lack of believe in god and in Christianity. It was shown in the survey where it showed that 18% of Canadians are pro Christians compare to USA where about 56% of population is Christian.

I do believe gays can have social union if they want so they have all of the legal rights.

As for having children I do believe the child has higher possibility to become gay due to the parents teachings. So unless enough research is done I won’t accept it. Also even if they get what they want it’s still going to be hard life for gay/lesbians.

It might be tough to accept but hey these are my 0.02..

KawalaBear

I agree with Evil Elf in some way but, I was rasied properly. How ever it might not be who or how you were raised. Anyone that thinks Homosexuality is normal needs the head examined its "GAY" people who make other normal people feel uncomfurtable to live in this world. I am not bound by a religion in no shape or forum, I do belive there is some sort of higher power that exists "GOD" in human language, I have read and studied various Bibles in the past, maybe not intenseivly but i got the general idea what they were trying to teach. Here is the simple version.

GOD Creates MAN.
GOD Creates Women.
there is a equation here.. if you havent noticed what the anwser is to this equation you should re-think this over and over until you understand.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
still dont know i will tell you what my opinion on this matter is.
Adam + EVE
not
Adam + Adam
nor
EVE + EVE.

If you have a religion of some sort that you study or belive in and you are "GAY" you should not be studing any religion.

- And for all the people out there that say being "GAY" is alright and think oh they dont bother me in no way, think upon this senerio. You are young, you age, you find a normal partner (Female + Male) you have a child you raise him or her well, you teach her or him to acept gay people like you acepted them and your child turns into a homosexual later in life. Would you actually allow this? for your own CHILD to become "GAY" and thus the circle continues and more people are currupted by this Homosexuality.....

my 0.02

You might think otherwise even though I've said this much, however i dont care if you dissagree with me. This is my opinion and this is a Thread on a forum. Beause thats what they're for.

rattie

Well, I'm straight and Catholic.. and I'm pro gay marriage. My basic reason is like everyone said: love is love I don't see what's wrong with allowing two people who are in love to have a civil marriage, though I do understand the argument that homosexuality is against Catholicism, and so homosexual marriages probably won't ever take place in churches. Freedom of religion implies that a person shouldn't be forced to comply to the rules of a religion that he isn't a part of. That's why there aren't prayers in public schools. Religions are usually excellent sources of moral guidance, but they shouldn't be forced upon anyone.
I don't see any problem with gay couples adopting or acting as foster parents. There's a lot of kids out there who are in need of love. What if a child was living in foster care with a single woman who lived with her single sister? This child would be living with two women, but most people wouldn't object. The situation's not much different for a child living with two lesbians.

Anyhow, regardless of whether or not they marry, the way that society looks at homosexuals disgusts me. Whatever happened to basic human dignity? Like Applefaerie, I was teased a lot when I was little because I dressed different and looked different and thought different than most of the other kids, and it wasn't until I left most of those people behind when I went to university that I realized that I'd been totally miserable for the first 18 years of my life because of the way people treated me. I couldn't imagine feeling that way for the rest of my life. I think it probably takes a lot more guts than some people realize to openly admit that one is homosexual.

Being anti-homosexual marriage in Catholic church is compeltely understandable. Being anti-homosexual marriage in any case is a denial of basic rights. I don't mean to offend.. but religion and government are two seperate things.

Life won't be hard for gays and lesbians if people stop making it so hard.

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KawalaBear

yah no kidding guess what if you did not already know, first there was religion then there was goverment. I could not care less what the goverment thinks all though its better if it was in my favor, it's people like you who make it sound being gay is fine. If this was 50-60 years ago you would be beatin to death or hanged infront of a public square by the goverment or surrounding people. The goverment made this world of ours F**ked up if you will, giving too many rights this and too many rights that, MODERNIZATION is to blame. So is insanity and people who are mentally challanged. People take advantage of this and the goverment follows. Unfortunatly after the goverment there goes religion because people start to think its O.K. and then humans alter the Bible or other reilgious books( this is why im not bound by a religion). Humanity makes me sick sometimes. It's like monkey see monkey do....

rattie

quote:
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it's people like you who make it sound being gay is fine. If this was 50-60 years ago you would be beatin to death or hanged infront of a public square by the goverment or surrounding people
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Whoa…. I never thought of it that way, dude. I’ll remember that the next time I go back in time. I’d hate to die for something I believe in The world was definitely a much better place 50-60 years ago, when homosexuals were shunned, races were kept segregated, and women knew their place.

I make it sound like homosexuality is ok because it is, in my opinion. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine.

neverlandgurl

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DynamicHalfDuo

The Luddites died out in the early 1900's, and with good reason. Resisting modernization means resisting a lot of powerful forces.

Medicine
Egalitarian government
Labour laws
Technology that saves lives and promotes communication
Education

Think about short, brutal lives in the middle ages... where people were treated like so much brute labour and the average life span was just just over 30 years old, and that was just in the "civilized" world. Think about that, while you have enough food to eat, high quality education for free, and access to the span of human knowledge at all times through the internet.

Think of that while you have human rights guarenteed to you - an idea that was revolutionary - literally - in the 18th century.

If you blame Modernization for the ills of society, it can only be from lack of awareness of the pitfalls of the past.

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KawalaBear

i couldnt careless about the other subjects you have pointed out, lets get back to the subject at hand. Homosexuals. Not "races were kept segregated, and women knew their place."



ur entitled to your opinion but your also entitled to be ignored So sit down and go sing kumbaiya.

neverlandgurl

same to you buddy...except don't sing kumbaya...your klan uniform probably needs washing

DynamicHalfDuo

Let's look at it legally - because that's the only way that matters, when it comes to laws.

Marriage is a legal union between two individuals that guarentees certain rights and privileges under the law.

Legislation already on the books prohibits discrimination under the law based on race, religion, sexual orientation, and so on.

So basically, anyone who is against "homosexual marriage" has no legal leg to stand on. I'd love to hear the legal - not religious, not moral, not "this is how I feel" - but the purely LEGAL arguments from the other side, though.

Best of luck.

princess.tima

i don't understand the logic of those who oppose homosexual marriages...
do you think if you tell someone they can't get married, that they're suddenly going to have some life altering revelation and become straight?

ignorance and intolerance will be the death of you people.

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